Curse

Senator Tom · Jun 18, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3037674

bigwig · Jun 18, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

not to be too judgemental, and i'm not trying to insult anyone who likes mending, but i've always thought it indicated a sort of laziness.

You know that when a warrior in your group puts up mending he hasn't put much thought into other forms of defense. He's just going to plow on, sometimes alone (often this exactly why they put mending on themselves, so they can go off on their own and die) into mobs and get himself and possibly others killed.

Among my guild we always take note in guild chat when a pug or someone puts up mending. To warn each other.

jummeth · Jun 18, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by teh_ninja_pirate

Not to mention it makes casting Breeze pointless (usually) when you have a single death under your belt. Which in itself is nice, IMO =P

Mending is useful cos you can typically get +12 regen with HB on a 55 monk, also, its a maintained enchant, so you can afford to cast it to draw all the interupts before casting a useful spell like Shield of Judgement.

AFAIK that is the only useful area of mending.

RE: casting mending on the monk, Succor would be more useful and also it doesn't cos attribute points. The enchant will *possibly* lower the monk's target order. (has this actually been proven?)

Of course in PvP, this point is moot.

Winstar · Jun 18, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

I hate people quoting enchant removal as a reason for Mending's inefficiency-are prot monks usless because their spells might be removed? No, Mending is poor simply because your precious energy can be put to better use than sustaining a constant 6hp gain per second.

good point,

Its true that in general the fact the an enchanment can be stripped is not a reason not to use an enchantment. But good enchantments are worthwhile because the slight cost of having them stripped is outweighed by their benefit. In the case of mending, in pvp environments, its benefit is so minimal that the cost of having it stripped outweighs any use it might have. There are just so many better things one can be doing. Mending in PvP is an unfortunate consequence of the pre-made builds and newer players trying to take a Pve mentality into Pvp. But this can be unlearned. I shudder to think of the kinds of things I did when I first started playing in pvp environments...shudder

lightblade · Jun 18, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Let's do some math shall we?

Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep

1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second

over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy

Does it sound worthy now?

With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy.

Zephyr Jackson · Jun 18, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I Personally use mending in 2 situations, either Solo Farming, or Running Through lower level areas so i can keep the customer happy with faster run times.

Although it isnt necessary for either of these.

Vigorus Spirit > Live Vicariously > Mending

Winstar · Jun 18, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Let's do some math shall we?

Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep

1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second

over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy

Does it sound worthy now?

With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy.

Do you mean worthy in a pve environment? Is a warrior intended to use blessed signet? I'm not sure what you are refering to so apologize if you had somethign else in mind.

If mending is intended to be used for pvp on a warrior then it is most definitely not worthy. The fact that a few pips of regen adds up over time is decieving. Yes it can counteract some degen, but it does nothing to help you against spikes. Running blessed signet on a warrior in order to help with mending is even worse since it dedicates 2 slots on your skill bar to maintain an effect that is not really helping you much against a major source of damage you'll be facing and it won't really do much to slow down anyone running dedicated degen. If you want to aid yourself against conditions, run plague touch since you can deal with blinding, crippling, etc. which are of far greater concern since your main goal should be to have a number of high damage adrenaline skills that you can charge up and reign down upon soft targets with vengence, and ways to bring down/slow such targets. Mending is part of an overly defensive mindset that is out of place in warrior skill bars in Pvp environments. Dedicating so many points to healing in order to get mending running at a high rate just reduces the possibility of doing any real damage which as a warrior is why you are on the team in the first place.

jummeth · Jun 18, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Let's do some math shall we?

Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep

1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second

over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy

Does it sound worthy now?

With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy.

Over the course of 9 seconds I can use Heal Sig twice, to heal for 240HP for 0 energy... your point is?

Also 4pips == 13heal prayers which is not avail to warrior. My example with the heal sig uses 10+1 tactics, which is a regular occurence for an average warrior build.

Katari · Jun 18, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Live Vic and Vig Spirit are both better for solo farming with a warrior. I haven't ever been in a solo farming situation where a third heal would be more benifical than another defensive skill.

Thorath Of Krosa · Jun 20, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

I have a solution.....Vig.Spirit+flurry=Better unfortuneatly vig is also an enchant so look out but it costs 5 engergy lasts 30 seconds and with 8 on healing heals for 13 every time you hit someone......what more do you need?

Thorath Of Krosa · Jun 20, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

Over the course of 9 seconds I can use Heal Sig twice, to heal for 240HP for 0 energy... your point is?

Also 4pips == 13heal prayers which is not avail to warrior. My example with the heal sig uses 10+1 tactics, which is a regular occurence for an average warrior build.

Just remember that if your struck with an inturrupt ure facked so carry a backup heal or toss a stance in there to help you with that (especially with pvp)

THEIvo · Jun 20, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

I think the skill is used terribly.
Mending offers six health per second, for one energy everty three seconds- half your energy gain. It also requires at least 7/8 (I do not remember) in Healing Prayers. You could use great attack skills instead. If you do not need the energy and attribute points, at least don't put mending on yourself, but on your monk. His survival is much more important than yours.

Also, Live Vicarously gives much more health in battle

Phoenix Sebolta · Jun 20, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Its all very well using healing signet, but if youre a solo W/Mo for pve, you need to be able to both deal damage and heal yourself/keep youself alive. I dont think tactics is the way to go. You need 8 tactics to heal you 100 hp. With -40 armor when fighting level 22+ monsters you will probably lose 100 hp while youre using healing sig thanks to the lack of armor. Also, tactics arent the best damage dealers to most enemies. Personally i go for max swords to deal damage, high strength and 8 healing prayers. The combo of hig strength and high swordsmanship means you deal a lot of damamge, also if u use dolyak sig, you can further protect yourself against a strength attribute skill.

The issue of regenerating energy, warriors endurance, +3 energy every time you hit with an attack for over 20 seconds gives you virtually unlimited energy which can be used for healing. Damage comes from adrenal sword attacks such as sever artery, gash, galrath slash and final thrust. This means you can keep your energy for healing. I think mending is a good skill to use in this instance because of boundless energy from warriors endurance and dolyak signet means much of the damage you take is reduced to a level that mending will significantly counteract. Also, healing breeze would be perfectly suitable for major healing due to the vast supply of energy. Counteracts degen as well.

The point i wanted to make was, warriors dont have good self healing skills for a solo pve build. All they have is healing signet which needs high tactics to be any good. This means you have to have 8 healing prayers so why not use mending. mending and dolyak sig help to sustain your health, while breeze could restore it (or whatever healing spell takes your fancy). Bottom line is, having no tactics is a pretty good idea as you can spend the attributes on strength and healing prayers, rather than spreading between tactics and strength.

I do believe tactics are useful however when taking on other warriors. Essential in fact. For farming trolls i use max tactics and the ripostes and healing sig. now with max tactics it gives you 159 hp every 2 seconds if you want. very significant. using dolyak will counteract the armor drop and stances such as glads and bonettis and shield stance will stop them interrupting (with a bit of luck). This is the basic build i use for troll farming and powerleveling and ive not seen a build do it better ever. The reason i dont use this in regular solo pve, is not all enemies attack in melee. The crooks of the build requires the enemy to attack you in melee, which eles, monks, rangers, mesmers and necromancers dont. Ie all other classes.
Granted, if youre fighting a lot of mesmers, take off mending, its that simple. However, i prefer just not to fight mesmers with my warrior. Stone Summit Heretics, i keep well away...

jummeth · Jun 20, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Solo W/Mo for farming, you would use LV as your maintained. That is a totally different thing to what we are discussing.

If you have 10 degen on you (or greater) Healing siggy will keep you alive almost indefinately. This is extremely helpful for the monk as it lifts some of the pressure off their shoulders. Mending/healing breeze will be totally negated by most degen builds you will face in pvp. In some PvE places aswell.

There is no point arguing about the low pressure parts of the game since by nature of those areas, they allow for inefficiencies.

RE: you argument about attribute points, as an warrior, your weapon mastery should always be 15/16, there is no excuse for this. There are 1 or 2 farming builds where you get away with little or no weapon mastery, for reposte instead, but again, this is a very small part of a warriors role.

Tactics line also has many other useful skills such as watch yourself and shields up, these are useful against spikes and general survivability of your group.

Dolyak Signet outside of farming is generally a really bad idea, its simply not flexable enough. In PvP, it is a joke since all they have to do is walk away from you and boom your useless. In missions and exploration, Dolyak means that if agro does break from you (as 'tank', i'll get to that in a sec) you are unable to collect them up again or respond to a threat that emerges.

8+1 strength is a good break point for your speed buff skills, you tend not to need more than 15 seconds worth of rush, and it is recharged really quickly anyway. As mentioned 12+3+1 weapon mastery and that leaves 10+1 tactics, which will give heal sig 120hp gain. This is a good balance.

Warrior's endurance is a horrible elite to take. You give up Quivering/Eviserate/Devastating... useful elites, effectively, lets look at this in a different way, as you say for your energy management, since you need it as you are using mending... you would take mending to Evis/Quivering/Devi Hammer?!?

Mending gives 3 health regen, it counteracts bleeding. Would you ever be worried about bleeding as a degen? So why would you waste an energy doing the opposite?

RE: warriors not having good self healing, Warrior's healing signet is possibly one of the best self heals in the game. You just actually have to use it correctly. TU is possibly the only other better.

Troll farming is doable on so many different builds is because its too damn easy. Almost anything can do it. In a thread like this, you base too many arguments on one *tiny* part of this game, and its probably not even intended. Trolls are used because they are easy and quick to kill. Thats the point of farming.

In all honesty, you haven't given one true point about why mending is useful yet, all we have seen is that you have to waste your elite, or you have to lower your attack. Or you prefer to not touch 1/4 of the classes in guild wars.

I'll keep saying this:
Mending is the epitome of lazy warrior 'tank' attitude, and its not even an effective way. Warriors have a large lump of metal in their right hands, that swing away at the enemy at a scary rate.
Warriors are DPS monsters. You will find if you apply enough pressure to the opposition team, you will become the target. Which is why currently monks are #1 targets, since they considerably hinder your kill rate, similar fate with mesmers. However, if you see the variety of warrior hate out there, you will understand why they are there, to subdue this evil killing machine.

By putting skills into useless attributes such as heal prayers, you are harming your team by lowering your effectiveness. Mending is frowned upon since it is the flagship of this silly mentality.

Up to now, I have seen 2 uses for mending, supplimenting a 55 monks regen and drawing the savage slash from ataaxes so I can cast SoJ.

Sarah Arano · Jun 20, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Let's do some math shall we?

Facts First:
- Mending max out at 4 pips
- Mending cost 1 upkeep

1 upkeep = 1 energy / 3 seconds = .33 energy / second
4 pip = 8 health per second

over the course of 9 seconds, you'll be healed for 72 for 3 energy

Does it sound worthy now?

With some help with Blessed Signet, you won't be losing any energy, so it will become heal 72 but gain 3 energy.

When using numbers to prove a point, you should try to compare them with an alternative skill or skills that do the job for the same amount of attribute points.

In the context of a warrior, you shouldn't be using more than 9 points if any in healing. If you were to make an active comparison with other heal skills you'll see that

At 8 healing :

Mending will give 6hp/sec, in a time span of 30 secs, Mending will give 180hp for 10 energy.

Vigorous Spirit will give 13hp/attack.

An axe/sword has a 1.33sec swing rate and attacks ~22 times in 30secs, resulting in 286hp for 5 energy. A hammer has a 1.75sec swing rate and attacks ~17 times in 30secs, resulting in 221hp for 5 energy.

Mending : 18hp/1energy
axe/sword : 57.2hp/1energy
hammer : 44.2hp/1energy

Live Vicariously will give 10hp/attack, which is 220hp for 10 energy with axe/swords and 170hp for 10 energy with hammers.

Mending : 18hp/1energy
axe/sword : 22hp/1energy
hammer : 17hp/1energy

Assassin(taking dagger base as 1.33sec)
Mending : 18hp/1energy
Vigorous Spirit : 57.2hp/1energy
Live Vicariously : 22hp/1energy

Ranger(shortbow)
Mending : 18hp/1energy
Vigorous Spirit : 39hp/1energy
Live Vicariously : 15hp/1energy

at 9 healing :

Mending will give 6hp/sec, Healing Breeze will give 14hp/sec.

In a time span of 12 secs, Mending will give 72hp for 4 energy, which is 18hp/1energy.

With a 20% ench mod, Healing Breeze will give 168hp for 10 energy, which is only 16.8hp/1energy.

Mending : 18hp/1energy
Healing Breeze : 16.8hp/1energy

With speed boosts and other factors aside:

Vigorous Spirit(anything) > Live Vicariously(axe/sword/dagger) > Mending > Healing Breeze(with ench mod) > Live Vicariously(hammer/bows)

Mending is better off on spell casters that have no better form of healing or on characters that are constantly on the move.

Russell.Crowe · Jun 20, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Works for running and PvE (although, don't bring it into areas where it gets shattered a lot, because it might get you killed). In PvP it just gets shattered, waste of a skill. It isn't as bad as the people who use frenzy or healing signet in areas of high damage output.

Katari · Jun 20, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Sarah Arano has the right of it. As long as you attacking, there are better options in the healing line that provide more healing per second then mending.

Yes, it "works" in PvE, but unless you are running somewhere, or simply not attacking, it "works" less effectivly than other options. Theroeticaly anything works in PvE, because PvE is not competitive. Eles that do little other than spam Flare "work" in PvE, but that dosn't make them remotly good. You can say "Whatever is fun for you" or "Each to their own" and whatnot all you want, but that dosn't make for a strong argument in favor of mending.

jummeth · Jun 21, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell.Crowe

Works for running and PvE (although, don't bring it into areas where it gets shattered a lot, because it might get you killed). In PvP it just gets shattered, waste of a skill. It isn't as bad as the people who use frenzy or healing signet in areas of high damage output.

Almost every decent pvp build has the warrior running both of those skills.

BaconSoda · Jun 21, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

1st, not all wmmo's are noobs...2nd, I have heard no testimony towards prot. wmmos... In the situation desrcibed above, with 10 enemies doing 10 dmg/second, for roughly 30 seconds, my wammo would've taken absolutely 0 damage, and still have his 750 health. How one might ask? Simple, here is my build:

Strength: 10 (8+1)
Swordsmanship 12 (11+1)
Protection 10/11 (memory doesn't serve, I have been using Ripose tank recently)

Skills:
Sever Artery
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust/Silverwing Slash
Purge Conditions/Mend Ailment
Shielding Hands
Mark of Protection {E}
Vital Blessing
Res

Equiptment: Defender (Stregnth) +45 hp (enchant) -2 damge (enchant), Fortitude Sword

Now Shielding Hands and MoP have 10 second durations. I reduce my damage by 16 with malion's shield and shielding hands, I also reduce my damage by 46 on MoP. at 10 dmg/second, I would be invincable for roughly 30 seconds even with the 5second gap with 25 second shielding hands recharge. Even then, Vital blessing gives me a huge amount of health, and I can withstand a heavy beating in that time.
If anyone has any objections post them and i'll contest.

Lando Griffen · Jun 21, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Regaurdless of what anyone says, mending does not suck (at least for pve). There are times when mending is essential for solo-farming, but where it gets it's bad rep is from mending warriors in pvp. When I take a trip to random arena and see a w/mo wearing dragon armor, who casts mending on himself, I generally think, gg other team... It's not that it's their fault either, it's due largely in part, to the absolutely horrible pre-made warrior template. People who are first starting the game don't really have much of a choice, and they have no idea what kind of flaming they're gonna get. So anyway, keep on using mending for pve, it's a great skill, but please don't try to use it in pvp, it just cuts down on your effectiveness.